Jan 6, 2010

PASS Summit Venue

Bill Graziano and Andy Warren have both put their thoughts out there on where to hold the PASS Summit in 2011 and beyond. I wanted to share my thoughts on the matter as well. Please take note that these are my thoughts and do not represent the position of the PASS Board of Directors in any official capacity.

Size Matters

Forget what you may have heard in the past. Size matters.

Our conference is at roughly 2,500 members, give or take. A conference of that size can only be held in a specific number of venues across North America. In other words, not every city can accommodate a conference of our size, as even fewer will be able to host our conference should it grow to say, 10,000 attendees (my lofty goal). When you start getting to be that big then you have to really start spreading yourselves out, or run sessions into the night (or both). One of the things that works well for us right now is that we are able to hold everything inside of one place. We would want to continue to find venues that allow for everyone to gather together when possible.

Location, Location, Location

The next thing to consider is the location. Not just the location of the Summit venue, but the locations of all our members. We are a global association. We have members fly in from all over the world. In order to alleviate some of the travel pains it is best to be located in a city that is either an international hub, or can be reached in one flight from an international hub. But being a hub itself is even better. Combine this factor with the size factor and the number of available cities drops.

As much as a pain as it can be for me to skip backwards three time zones I know and understand it is even more of an issue for those coming from farther away. So I try to keep my whining about such matters to myself although my family is never pleased with my return flight options from Seattle.

And let’s not forget any of the disasters, natural or otherwise, that have affected previous Summits. Location matters, as well as your timing. Having a major conference in Hurricane Alley during hurricane season may not be the wisest choice. Neither would having it in Detroit during…well…ever.

Variety is the Spice of Life

I enjoy new experiences, I think most people do. I also enjoy routines. I think it is wise for the Summit to be located in Seattle, but it would also be wise to have it rotate out. I like the idea of trying to time our Summit with the launch of a new version, but I am not certain how practical that may be given the amount of time involved. For example, we have to commit to the 2011 Summit soon, and Microsoft could say that is their target for a launch. But while our commitment would stand firm, their ship date may change by six months, meaning we are in Seattle and miss the launch we were expecting.

Is there enough demand for us to have a second Summit, perhaps in May? We already have a European Summit, usually in the Spring, so technically we would be having three events a year. If we had a second event in North America, how would people decide which one to attend? Given the current financial structure of putting on a Summit, we would take a large scale financial loss if we were to put on a Summit and no one came.

Talk To Me

So, how frequently do we rotate it out, if ever? I don’t know. That’s why I asked. And that is why it is important that we hear back from the community. We are here to serve you. Tell us what you want. Review the facts and give us your thoughts. We know we will never be able to please everyone, but unless we collect feedback then we really have no idea what it is that people want.

If you want to stay in Seattle forever, then tell us. If you want to visit a new city each year, then tell us. If you want us to go to a new city and stay there forever, instead of Seattle, then tell us.

sqlrockstar PASS, SQLServerPedia Wiki 24 PASS

http://www.truthsolutions.com/ K. Brian Kelley

I think what would help the argument is if we knew, from previous research, what venues could accommodate the PASS Summit.

Thomas LaRock

Brian,

You are looking for a list of possible cities? That way you could choose a specific one for 2011?

http://www.truthsolutions.com/ K. Brian Kelley

Yes, a list of cities would be helpful. The reason being we’ve often heard that Seattle is one of the few places it can be held. If the cities don’t correspond with an area that Microsoft can put a reasonably strong presence together at an acceptable cost, then obviously it points us back to Seattle.
http://www.sqlasylum.com Pat Wright

I’m all for going back to Seattle every other year. So it’s the consistent location and the other site moves or changes as needed. Although I’m not sure we should ever return to Hurricane Alley unless the conference is in the spring or something.
Tim Costello

Dallas. It’s central and has the capacity for a large conference.
http://twitter.com/chuckboycejr Chuck Boyce

I had a brief huddle with my checking account and it told me that if the PASS Summit were to be held in Boston or NYC I could probably go, but if it were held anywhere else it would probably veto me. Darn checking account…
http://www.straightpathsql.com Mike Walsh

Going to Seattle is great for the Summit. All those Microsoft folks attending is a huge plus for the community. You build amazing contacts with folks on the product teams who you bump into on the web and sometimes get great tips. It is great for the folks who write SQL to hear candid feedback from us “ordinary” users of the product line.

That being said I know there are some people that just will not be able to get out there. Heck at my company after PASS I was told I was “lucky” because “We don’t normally allow folks to go to west coast conferences” (never did get an idea of why…)

So a few thoughts that I have:

1.) Every 2nd or 3rd year or so – go to a different time zone. Seattle/Seattle/Boston/Seattle/Seattle/Dallas

2.) SQL Saturdays are a great way to get smaller, localized training. Why not look at doing PASS “mini-conferences”. Yes I understand logistics and cost are both high but what about keeping it in Seattle every year but having 4 Mini or Regional Conferences? Each quarter in a different non Pacific NW location (NYC, CHI, Florida, etc) A bit more substantive than a SQL Saturday (a 2 day or 3 day conference with no pre/post or just one day of pre-con’s/etc). Maybe start out with just one “satellite” conference in NYC or CHI one year and see how it goes.
http://thesqlagentman.com Tim Ford

I remember having similar discussions in the past with current and previous Board Members. I think we whittled the list down to 6 cities that fit the criteria you outlined: size, international hub or hub + 1. We also discussed pure cost for the different venues left on that list.

Expensive: LA, Chicago, Boston, and NYC fit that bill.
Ground Transportation: Also you need to think about ground transportation. Again, scratch LA, Chicago, Boston, and NYC off the list as well. Either a PITA or expensive for each of those cities.

If my memory serves we were left with Orlando, Dallas, Nashville, San Jose, Seattle, Denver.

Orlando and its iffy weather is not ideal. If we’re going to be on the West Coast we should be in Seattle (proximity to Microsoft) so cross San Jose off the list. That leaves us with Denver, Nashville, Dallas, and Seattle. Right? Wrong. Denver is a pain for ground transportation and it is my understanding that our size was not compatible with their new convention center.

So, we have Dallas, Nashville, and Seattle. There is a proximity issue with the first two and Microsoft, but if that somehow is no longer a concern then Dallas or Nashville (and their associated Gaylord hotels/convention centers) may be feasible, though we drop from an international hub to a hub + 1 if we do move to either venue.

Personally, I think it should be in Seattle each year. Why? Because:
A.) We are community focused on a Microsoft product.
B.) Microsoft is located locally within driving distance to Seattle.
C.) It is cheap for Microsoft to send a ton of “talent” into the city for the Summit
D.) It is expensive for Microsoft to send the same ton of “talent” anywhere else for the Summit
E.) We don’t want Microsoft to send only 250 lbs. of “talent” instead of their requisite ton.
F.) I am more than happy to make it easy for my solution vendor to provide resources for me to meet with at PASS. It is not about how much of a PITA my 3 hour time difference is, or the fact that I hit the same restaurants each year or see the same sights as I walk around town. It’s about having face time with those who develop, manage, and support the product I use to earn a living and put food on the table for my family.

My vote is for Seattle until the time comes that Microsoft moves their headquarters to Detroit. At that time I change my vote to Nashville, Dallas, or Denver. I’d rather fly to any of those venues than drive to the “D’.
http://www.MidnightDBA.com Jen McCown

Um, Tim? DFW is an international hub. Not coastal, but there are plenty of direct flights to/from overseas.

Having said that, I don’t mind any which way, but I suppose my preference would be to have PASS in Seattle at least 2/3 of the time. Maybe moving it elsewhere every third year might be ideal.
http://scarydba.wordpress.com Grant Fritchey

Dallas. Absolutely.

At least one year in three ought to be somewhere else, just to spread the pain of travel around the country a bit. I agree that we’ll always get our absolute best Microsoft involvement in Seattle, no question, but I think we might get a wider participation, occasionally, if we moved the conference once in a while.
http://www.straightpathsql.com Mike Walsh

I also think of folks at various levels in their careers.

The folks who are progressing in their career, already giving back through presenting, blogging, authoring, etc. will really want the Microsoft interaction.

Folks at a junior to mid-level would still gain a TON from the Microsoft representation but if we had even 1/2 or 1/4 of the Microsoft attendance they would still gain IMMENSELY from going to PASS. They would pick up a TON from the community sessions, the birds of a feather type events, being assigned an experienced conference attendee to be a “mentor” or “big brother/big sister” for the conference like Tom (or someone) blogged about recently. Heck, even if no one from Microsoft was there PASS would be a huge success for a lot of folks. They would gain contacts, knowledge, friendships and an excitement for the product we all love.

Some of those people are not coming to the Summit because it is in Seattle.

To me its that simple. I’ll find a way to get myself there if I can’t go next year because of the “we don’t like west coast conference” attitudes but there are plenty of others who may never get there while it is in Seattle.

I am willing to give up the Microsoft insider access every couple or few years if it means I can see a new face, get to know someone just starting out in the technology and maybe provide them some advice or direct them to someone more capable of giving them advice.

Lets try and balance MS involvement and breaking PASS open to new faces. Maybe a new attendee in Boston or Dallas would beg, borrow or steal to get to the Seattle conference the very next year.

(This is a hard decision to make.. I love eating Sushi at Shiro’s in Seattle )
http://www.truthsolutions.com/ K. Brian Kelley

Putting aside the Microsoft attendance aside for a moment…

What about Atlanta or Charlotte? Washington, D.C.? St. Louis? None of those are sufficiently large enough with the proper transportation available? I know if we could get 4-5K attendees into the Montgomery Civic Center back in the mid-late 90s for the Air Force Information Technology Conference, it seems like other venues would be doable size wise.
http://www.truthsolutions.com/ K. Brian Kelley

Not a hard decision for me, Mike. I love eating sushi at my mom’s table in Beaufort, SC. I don’t need to go to Seattle for good, authentic Japanese food. But Beaufort, SC won’t accomodate the PASS Summit.
http://twitter.com/chuckboycejr Chuck Boyce

Tim,

Just and fyi – NYC ground transportation is extremely inexpensive.

The subway costs $2.00 to go anywhere in NYC in a single direction and the AirTrain is $5.00 to/from JFK and free from EWR.
http://www.straightpathsql.com Mike Walsh

Good point from Chuck re: NYC ground transport…

Heck Boston’s ground transport seems pretty easy to me also. Not much work to get from logan to downtown. Most hotels offer free shuttles (not so with Sea-Tac.. logan is closer to the hotels, I guess). The Subway system is easy and cheap to navigate. Even easy to take trains to Boston from most points in the country.
http://twitter.com/chuckboycejr Chuck Boyce

Excellent point, Mike! In Boston you don’t even NEED to use ground transportation.

When TechEd was in Boston (my favorite TechEd, btw) everything – except for the TechEd party (when Microsoft rented out Fenway) – was within walking distance.
Scott Holewinski

Take a page from the Super Bowl rotation. Have it in Seattle every other year but also branch out to a few other sites like Dallas, Boston, Phoenix, etc. You can’t satisfy everyone, but this way you cover most people every few years.

Thomas LaRock

Scott,

Not a bad idea, if only we could decide upon those other cities. With the NFL, cities put out bids for hosting. Maybe we could get cities to fight over hosting the PASS Summit?

http://www.sqlsentry.net Greg Gonzalez

At the risk of sounding entirely self-serving because I live there, I’m with Brian on the Charlotte idea I don’t necessarily disagree with many of the others mentioned like Denver, Dallas, etc. – all great cities – but it seems odd to me how Charlotte never seems to pop up on lists of possible locations. Since Charlotte seems to get no respect, let me list a few reasons why PASS could be here:

- CLT is #9 international airport in the world in terms of # of flights.
- Airport 10-15 minutes to downtown & convention center.
- One of the largest Microsoft U.S. Support office is here, including the #2 SQL Server support operation behind Dallas. Microsoft campus is 10 minutes from the airport and downtown. Every time I fly to Seattle and back to it seems like a significant percentage of the travelers are Microsoft.
- A plethora of great hotel options downtown a short walk from the convention center.
- Relatively inexpensive city for dining, transportation, etc.
- Very active nightlife downtown. Similar in size and activity level to Denver, maybe a bit bigger now with the Epicenter. You also don’t get hassled on every street corner like some other cities
- I believe the Charlotte Convention Center would have no problems at all handling the current PASS size. From the specs on their site it seems to be as big or bigger than WSCTC.
- Very mild climate, esp in Oct/Nov.
- Central East Coast location much more appealing for the European crowd. I always feel for those folks that make the trip to Seattle. With Charlotte or any other eastern location you’d almost certainly see dramatically increased European attendance.

I agree with Tim that having PASS in Seattle is HUGE when it comes to Microsoft attendance. Would Charlotte see the same? Definitely not. Would it be higher than other cities without a significant Microsoft presence? Likely so.

Again, I’m biased… but the above sounds reasonable, no?

Go Charlotte!

Thomas LaRock

Greg,

Rick Heiges has mentioned Charlotte a few times, and it is also in the back of my mind. You are correct, it is a venue that is worth exploring.

http://www.straightpathsql.com Mike Walsh

“Maybe we could get cities to fight over hosting the PASS Summit?”

I believe that is a common practice with Convention and Visitors Bureaus? (CVBs) I used to work for a software vendor that made sales and catering software that handled such events and also made software for CVBs.

If I recall correctly, it is a common practice for conventions to put out proposals or RFPs to several locations and have their events bid over by the various locations. Its big business for a city (Room taxes, meals taxes at the restaurants, increased business for tax paying businesses, etc.) and the conference centers and hotels so they can get into bidding wars. Sure we aren’t as big as a national political convention or Superbowl but…
http://www.sqlsentry.net Greg Gonzalez

I think the rotation concept, specifically Andy Warren’s idea of a Seattle/Dallas/East Coast city 3-year rotation would be optimal for several reasons, but primarily because:

- It provides a solid base in two Microsoft-heavy locations.
- It offers greater overall accessibility for community members.

Most of the other reasons have already been touched on so I won’t rehash.

Bill Graziano brought up some great points about “inconvenience sharing”, as well as costs and logistics issues related to moving away from Seattle since PASS HQ is in Vancouver. As an East Coast-based show sponsor for many years, I can say that we experience those every year, albeit on a smaller scale… so we are all about sharing

If the show stays in Seattle every year, there will inevitably be stagnation in certain areas, and I think we witnessed some of this firsthand this year. It was the first time that I actually heard multiple vendors actually question the value of the show from a sponsorship perspective, other than the occasional random grumble. Many possible reasons have been thrown around for this, and in reality there are likely several factors, but a recurring theme is that many don’t necessarily view a very high proportion of Microsoft attendees as ideal from a marketing perspective. Note I said “high proportion” not “high number”, which are obviously very different.

Bottom line is the sponsors’ concerns need to be factored in at some level, since they help support the show, and I fear that much longer in Seattle exclusively and you are going to see some of that support wane.

There will be always be downsides and gripes to any location, but ultimately PASS is a global community and so needs to maximize its exposure and accessibility. It’s all about finding that balance.
Chris Wood

Something else that should be considered is Microsoft’s release schedule for SQL Server.

The year before a major release and probably the year of a major release coming out it is great to hear directly from Microsoft in Seattle.

If we had say 3 or 4 years between major releases then once the release is generally in use go somewhere outside of Seattle so thers can get the great content that PASS Summit offers.

As a Western Canadian, Seattle is one 90 minute flight away for me, but I have also gone to Denver and Orlando.

Just a thought.

Chris
http://thesqlagentman.com Tim Ford

My Bad – DFW is an international hub, just not coastal. Charlotte *does* sound appealing!