I forget when I first discovered newsgroups. After all, I have been online for what seems like my entire life and have bounced from one forum to another. But as the Internet has evolved one thing remains true for me: newsgroups are an awful way to communicate and get help.
Would you consider posting a question about a particular food item and placing it on the bulletin board that is hanging on the wall as you walk out of the grocery store? What good would that do you anyway? If you post a question it is when you are on your way out and usually you are not allowed to enter that same way so you would not get an answer until the next time you exit the store (unless you break the rules by walking in through the out door), and by that time the answer would not be helpful until the next time you reenter the store. Honestly, it is about the most inefficient way I can think of to get an answer to a nutritional question, and yet I would still rather do that than go to any nutritional newsgroup on the Internet.
So, why do people use forums or newsgroups? Because they want information about something. They want good, quality answers, from people they can trust. On the other hand, they have no idea who these people are, and often times accept answers that are simply wrong. So, why do you believe it when a stranger tells you that it is okay to live on coffee and cigarettes but you scoff at your doctor who tells you that you are slowly killing yourself? “Forget you doc, because papa_doc told me online last night that it is okay to keep up with the smoking, and he knows what he is talking about because he has a website and all you have is a diploma hanging on the wall. How do I know that diploma is even real?”
So, let me sum up all the reasons why I abhor newsgroups.
- It takes too long to get an answer, especially if you need an answer quickly.
- Sometimes, people are quite rude.
- Most times, the answers are flat out wrong.
- Many questions are not being asked in the right forums.
- Moderators spend far too much time moving questions between forums.
- End users get frustrated when their questions are moved.
- You do not know who you can trust.
- You can review threads later, but have no idea which answer was correct.
Actually, I could go on, but you get the idea. Now, I know not all forums are like this. For example, I enjoy reading the questions and answers on StackOverflow. But I am not there every day, trying to answer questions. When I do stop by a lot of the questions have already been answered anyway.
So, why do I love the private MVP forums? Because they are everything anyone could ever hope for in a newsgroup.
When I troll the MVP forums all I find are courteous people, with great questions and wonderful answers. I find a community of people, dedicated to helping others, also helping each other. It has been a great experience to be able to participate in these forums. It is a way to connect with a focused group of professionals in a very specific manner. Similar to me posting a question about bacon right in the section of the grocery store where they sell the bacon. You know only people interested in bacon would ever be looking there, and those are the people you want to connect with anyway.
If newsgroups were people, the MVP forums would be the boy you want to date your daughter.
To date I have not answered any question in the MVP forums yet. Why? Because they are usually answered already by the time I get there. But I know my time will come, and I will be able to help another MVP with something.
Speaking of which, did you find an answer to the question you posted?
i want to say “yes”, but will wait for microsoft to close the ticket. although I am certain the 200+ SQL MVP’s know enough about security to answer the question quickly (which they did), our teams here are comforted when someone from microsoft responds. not sure what that says about myself or my team, but i also would like to have someone from microsoft weigh in on the matter.
I gave up answering on newsgroups because I was fed up of people telling me my answer was wrong, and there was usually no response to answers I posted. Yes, of course you’re right, I only wrote the SQL Server code we’re discussing. Sigh. Now, some forums are excellent – I make a point of having email alerts for some forums on SQLServerCentral.com and answer questions there.
that’s hilarious…someone telling you that your answer is wrong, given the fact that you wrote the underlying code?
Yes, I do agree that the forums at SSC are above average in terms of quality. In fact, they may be the only forums I participate in from time to time.
We shouldn’t be too hard on newsgroups. They have their place in history, alongside 5 inch floppy disks for example.
It’s just that the 5 inch floppy disk went extinct, it was because there were newer formats to obsolete the old and the newer computers no longer included hardware for it.
With newsgroups, sure, some things have come along that are better, but without forcing the newsgroups to be obsolete, they’ll just keep kicking around.
Think of the dollar coin. In Canada the dollar coin was introduced and dollar notes were no longer printed. The dollar coin was accepted very quickly. In America, the dollar coin has yet to be accepted in the same way.
For the most part I agree with you, however I just want to say that http://www.sqlteam.com is an excellent forum. They have a few t-sql experts who have been amazingly helpful to me.
However, the other topics I sometimes research such as VBA, Crystal Reports, etc. I have yet to find quality help from any forums.
So, there’s this great forum but you only get to use it if you’re an MVP, which means you’ve been answering questions on other forums where just the dumb people are?
I’m sure you didn’t really mean it that way, but from a non-MVP standpoint that’s what comes across.
For the record, I’ve only posted once or twice to the msdn forums, never seeing any answers to my questions. I’ve attempted to answer a few posts over the years on various boards, though most of the time the questions were already answered by others.
YMMV
wendy,
not sure how it comes across that way, since i do not participate in newsgroups yet somehow became an MVP. and no, i did not mean to imply that only the smart people are at the MVP forum, i really meant to say that the private forums are much more pleasant to work with than the public ones. it is the difference between taking the bus to the airport and a private town car.
so, you do not need to be active in forums to become an MVP, i am living proof.
hope this helps, and sorry if i offended you, or anyone.
I’m intrigued by your post. A little disheartened as well. You see, standing on the outside, not being an MVP that is, we don’t get to see that forum so, now we have someone telling us that the forums of all forums exists but, you can’t have it. 🙂
The main thing that I think applies here is that they are not all perfect. Some really bad but there are some, namely SSC, which really have some very strong SQL talent that strive to make a solid community that has helped tons of people in their careers as DBA’s and developers.
My encouragement to you and all MVP’s is to become active in other communities, outside of the MVP community so that you can help make a difference on a site and with those that haven’t reached the skill level that you and others have. You have that opportunity before you. I can honestly tell you that when Paul Randal posts something on SSC about a recovery question, I read it. I’m sure that the same could be said about you if you were on there or anywhere sharing the knowledge that you have attained.
Know what I mean? I have always thought that the best answer to a problem is a solution and I hope to be a part of that solution.
Thanks for the post.
David,
I agree, we should make an effort to stay involved in other communities. Many MVPs are quite active in public forums. Gail Shaw at SSC comes to mind immediately.
My involvement at SSC or in other public forums is sporadic at best. This is the result of the medium and format for interactions in forums do not suit my style or needs.
My dislike for newsgroups and forums do not make them a bad thing, it just means I have found other ways to help people when possible. My participation in the MVP forums has shown me just how good forums can be, and given me incentive to go back and become more active. Why, just yesterday, I posted to a forum at SSC.
And it felt good.
thanks.
Nice. I know I, and the others at that community, will appreciate your help. Yes, Gail, Grant, Jeff Moden, and other MVP’s have been huge and having one more is always nice.
Thanks!