Sep 24, 2010

Smart Doesn’t Make It Right

Today I was going to post a quick quote and I wanted to do some research to make sure I gave credit to the right person. The quote is “always remember those on your way up, because they’ll remember you on your way down”, and it is something my father used to tell me frequently during my formative years. While I would love to just cite my father as the source I decided to do a quick search on Google (sorry Bing, but I didn’t need someone to make a “decision” for me, I just needed a search, but thanks anyway).

So, my search returned this article. Go ahead and read it, I can wait right here.

Done? Good. Are you, in any way, even slightly offended by this article? I know I was. I had to go back and check to see if it was written by a man, because that is the exact thing I would expect a man to say would be OK (Flirt your way to the top? Absolutely! I think its a great idea!) So I was even more surprised that it was written by a woman. And I cannot believe she is serious.

The author tries to make it clear that she is really only talking about networking skills and not telling women to wear suggestive clothing to the office every day, but the problem is that her choice of words (“flirt”) leaves too much open to interpretation. No two women are going to think (or act) in the same exact way when it comes to flirting. What one woman would find acceptable another woman would say crosses a line, especially in the workplace.

Why did this article get under my skin? Simple. Imagine you have two people up for a promotion. One is clearly more skilled at the job, will be more productive in the role, and everyone agrees would be successful at the new job. The other is not as skilled, will not be as productive, and has an outside chance at success but gets the promotion because she flirts more.

A wise man once had a dream that we would live in a world where people were judged by the content of their character. I have a dream that we can be evaluated by our skills and talent and not by our willingness to show a superficial interest in a person holding a position of authority.

sqlrockstar Musings, Professional Development 25 Biting The Hand That Feeds Me, Professional Development, Reasons Why I Will Not Be Allowed at the WIT Luncheon

http://Www.InfoAdvisors.com Karen Lopez

I think this article uses the wrong word. Smiling, being nice, collaborating…those aren’t “flirts”, but great ways to be engaging.

I think a woman who uses real flirting can make fast progress in the workplace, but that progress will be very fragile. It won’t be sustainable.

There’s a fine line between schmoozing, flirting, and having fun.

Thomas LaRock

Agreed. She could have used the word “smile” instead of “flirt” and written the same article. Her choice of words was poor at best.

As for such progress not being sustainable, well…that depends, right?

Rahul Dhar

Yeah agree to what Karen is stating.

This article is more to do with rapport and relationship building rather than being flirtatious so yes writer could have picked up some different words.

I doubt that these things can take one to the top because somewhere and at someplace in one’s career he/she has to prove his/her metal but surely being flirtatious can help you to survive the first hit.
http://scarydba.wordpress.com Grant Fritchey

I agree. That article is pretty offensive. If you simply swap out the genders it would freak people out to no end, which is a great way to measure any article’s bias.

And did I mention you’re looking exceptionally good today. Have you lost weight? That shirt compliments your eyes.
an infrastructure DBA

Women in the work force has led to the divorce rate being what it is, the decline of religion and morals, and monetary inflation (news bulletin: in 1960, one paid cash for a new car and a mortgage was 20, not 30 or 40, years).

Of course, I’ll be vilified for stating the non-PC truth – but that’s America, a place where warrantless wiretapping is called The PATRIOT Act.

“We may be human, but we’re still animals”.

Thomas LaRock

President Ahmadinejad (AKA, an infrastructure DBA),

Thanks for taking the time to read my blog. I didn’t realize that you even knew about my little corner of cyberspace.

I find it amazing that you can blame inflation on “women in the work force”. During the American Revolution a loaf of bread cost $6 (in 1790 dollars, not 2010 dollars). I’m not sure how many women were in the workforce at that time, but I suspect it must have been quite a bit more than today based upon your logic. And about 90 years ago Germany was hit with massive amounts of hyperinflation. Something tells me that women weren’t responsible for that, either, but I am certain you can point out how they were involved. I could go on with pulling out references to periods of inflation in our modern history and many of them won’t correlate to your theory of having women in the workforce, but I don’t think I need to do that. You are entitled to your own opinions, even when they are wrong.

I hope you enjoy your trip back to Iran.

Tom

http://wendyverse.blogspot.com Wendy

Karen, you took the words right out of my mouth.

Since when is smiling, listening and making eye contact “flirting”? I thought that was just good manners. Really, why would anyone want to listen in a meeting…oh, because they’re flirting…right…

Ridiculous.

Also, glad to hear we’ve made such a global impact as women in the workforce. I’m kicking off my shoes now and hoping to get knocked up.
http://www.sqlsoldier.com Robert L Davis

Men “flirt” too. We just do it differently. We call it “being bro’s” or “bro’ing down” or some other silly phrase. Is it really all that different when a guy comes in to work and starts chatting to his boss about the great game the boss’s alma mater played over the weekend?

This isn’t a new concept. The only difference is that women are doing it in a different way. For as long as there has been business, some men have been getting ahead of other men based on their personality and ability to build a rapport.

Thomas LaRock

Robert,

That’s the problem, the article is encouraging something completely different than just being friendly or building a rapport. My daughter is seven years old. Should I focus on making her a strong, independent person, or just work on her ability to “flirt” her way through life?

Denise McInerney

The Business Insider article leaves out some of the more troubling advice. The original article in Forbes (linked to in the BI article) also recommends wearing four inch stilettos to work and “offering a touch on the hand”. The story of the woman whose “hand touching” put her in a potentially dangerous situation illustrates the problem with this whole idea. This type of behavior is never innocent. It impedes the efforts for women to be taken as seriously as men in the workplace and does a disservice to real victims of sexual harassment. This “flirtatious” behavior may help a woman get ahead in the short-run, but it will undermine her ability to be respected by her peers.

Thomas LaRock

Denise,

Thanks for your comments. You are dead-on by mentioning the respect factor. If there is ever even a hint that a woman has either gotten ahead (or stays ahead) by her ability to “flirt” with those in higher positions of authority then it does undermine their ability to get respect.

When I read articles like this it makes me reevaluate how I am trying to raise my daughter. I don’t want her to be anything except for a strong and independent person. The idea that she would be better off “flirting” her way to the top is offensive to me. She’ll get to the top because she works her way there, not because she can flirt or marry wisely.

http://shaunjstuart.com Shaun

Of course, if the author used “smile” instead of “flirt”, there wouldn’t be any sensationalism to the story and it wouldn’t have been published in the first place.
President Ahmadinejad

I didn’t state that was the only cause of inflation. US paper money does not even meet the economic definition of money, or maybe you didn’t know that, did you ?
What I stated was not opinion, it is a sociological observation.
The difference between your generation and mine is that they actually taught the truth in college in my day.

p.s. Look up why most women voted for JFK instead of Nixon.

Thomas LaRock

President Ahmadinejad,

I can only imagine that you get free Wifi on your flight back to Iran. Glad to see you are still engaged here. I always welcome a healthy debate on just about anything.

Can you enlighten me as to the difference between “opinion” and “sociological observation”? If I were to observe that Mexicans are great at being field workers, is that a sociological observation? I just want to be clear on your definitions.

As for the difference between your generation and mine, I believe there are quite more than just a handful. I especially liked how you were taught that we needed to stop the halt of Communism in Southeast Asia. Nice job on that one. And good thing you succeeded, too, otherwise who knows what the world would look like today, right?

I don’t need to look up the history of why women voted for JFK, I can just ask my family. I trust their sociological observations more than what I would find on the intertubz.

I hope one day you will reveal your true identity and you and I can sit down to discuss this in person. Debating in the comments section of a blog post is pointless, and I won’t bother to continue. I would welcome the opportunity to learn more about why you hold such a particular viewpoint.

Tom

http://www.sqlsoldier.com Robert L Davis

The funny thing about “the truth” is that the less of it there is, the more people claim there to be.
http://MidnightDBA.com Jen McCown

Dear President:

You are absolutely entitled to your opinion. And we’re entitled to ours. I disagree with you. Furthermore, I think bigots and anonymous internet commenters don’t deserve to be taken seriously.

Have a nice day,
Jen McCown
http://MidnightDBA.com Jen McCown

Tom,

I wonder what the equivalent BS advice for men would be?

“Intimidate and threaten your way to the top!”
Men, intimidate and threaten your way to the top! Be sure that you do it subtly, without being overt. Try a mild shoulder-bump as you pass by co-workers and bosses. Always stand aggresively, with one foot forward and your back very straight. Look people dead in the eye, without blinking. Be sure to read your target’s body language; if they start to sweat profusely or we themselves, you might want to back off a little. And understand that sometimes, you may encouter those who file assault charges…
http://www.librisibyllini.com wnylibrarian

“…they actually taught the truth in college in my day.”

I missed this part. Are they teaching that John Wilkes Booth shot William McKinley these days? Sorry, when you roll out the line “…in my day…” I turn the station off as what is to follow is sure to be bigotry and condescending. I’m with Jen.
Matt Cherwin

“Thanks for your comments. You are dead-on by mentioning the respect factor. If there is ever even a hint that a woman has either gotten ahead (or stays ahead) by her ability to “flirt” with those in higher positions of authority then it does undermine their ability to get respect.”

Just a quick question – when you say “their” in that sentence, are you referring to the specific woman who was flirting, or to women in the workplace in general?

Thomas LaRock

Matt,

It was meant more in a general sense, that any woman who chooses to get ahead based upon their ability to “flirt” will find it difficult to get the respect that they may get otherwise.

Rebecca Mitchell

Some good and interesting comments so far. I believe its articles like these that confuse people on how they should act in the workplace. I also agree that “flirting” is a poor choice of words in this case. However, I wouldn’t be surprised if that particular word was chosen because it would gain more attention. Regardless, I feel it shouldn’t have been used.

In my opinion, by saying it is okay to “flirt”, it sends the wrong message about how to advance your career regardless of your gender. The overall message to me is that if you try to be a people person and be pleasant to others, than it could help your career in a positive way. To me, that is fine. However, I believe it’s wrong to take it any further than that. Denise is right. Not only is it dangerous, but you can lose serious credibility and respect. What kind of message are you sending to people if you do that?

Also, how is building a rapport with someone considered flirting? To me, building a rapport is building a rapport which is finding common ground with someone. Flirting is taking it to a whole other level that doesn’t belong in the workplace.

To be honest, there are times when I really am not sure how to act. At one job, I thought I was just being pleasant and friendly to everyone by smiling and saying hi when I would pass someone in the hallway. It turned out one person took it the wrong way and apparently thought I was flirting. It was not my intention. I really am not that kind of person. Now if I did the opposite, would I be considered stuck up? Trying to find that safe middle ground can be difficult at times but I guess we can only do our best.
Matt Cherwin

“It was meant more in a general sense, that any woman who chooses to get ahead based upon their ability to “flirt” will find it difficult to get the respect that they may get otherwise.”

Thanks for the clarification – on first read, I thought you were saying that one woman’s flirtation would reflect poorly on all women in the workplace. Glad I asked before starting to argue…maybe some of those times Mom said “look before you leap” it actually sank in!
Denise McInerney

Matt, my two cents: a woman who follows this advice to “flirt” makes it harder for any woman in that workplace to gain respect. If the woman in the next cube gets the good projects because she wears four inch heels and “leans in and laughs” when a male supervisor is talking then the message being sent is that women have to behave in this way to succeed in that workplace.
Matt Cherwin

“Matt, my two cents: a woman who follows this advice to “flirt” makes it harder for any woman in that workplace to gain respect. If the woman in the next cube gets the good projects because she wears four inch heels and “leans in and laughs” when a male supervisor is talking then the message being sent is that women have to behave in this way to succeed in that workplace.”

I guess the part that bothers me is that I think you’re right, and I also think that it’s a problem. It shouldn’t be the case that the behavior of one member of a group* reflects on the group as a whole. I’d be bothered if someone related an anecdote about a man browbeating his way to an undeserved promotion, followed by a comment about “the problem with men in the workplace.”

I guess what I’m – clumsily – getting at is that the very fact that one woman’s flirting can make it harder for other women in the workplace is a fairly clear indication of how much further we as a society have to go on the gender equality front. As a man, I have the luxury of not worrying about how I look when some man elsewhere in the company acts a boor; I would be shocked (and angered) if I learned that I was in any way held responsible for his actions.

Women should have the same luxury – and I guess I was naive enough to believe that you did. And while I’d like to think I don’t contribute to the problem, since I managed to be oblivious to it I have to wonder if I’m guilty of that kind of thinking without realizing it.

* I mean specifically involuntary groups, like ethnicity and sex.
Denise McInerney

Matt, thanks for your comments. I’ll offer an additional thought: the premise of the orginal article is that flirting helps you get ahead, which means people in positions of power are rewarding the behavior. Do we blame the women who are engaging in flirtation or the managers who are being swayed by it?